Detroit Tow Rate Commission - August 22, 2024

Recording begins at 01:29:00 PM

Speaker 1 - 0:00
That is determining the weights.

Speaker 2 - 0:02
The city council made the Well, city

Speaker 3 - 0:04
council in the past, but

Speaker 1 - 0:05
we don't even know why they approved those weights or what the authority was intended to.

Speaker 2 - 0:10
So reading that from the prior minutes, it it was an assumption that dump trucks, cement mixers, very large, tractor trailers.

Speaker 2 - 0:49
That that's a a very small category.

Speaker 2 - 0:53
So to jump from a 16 foot or 20 foot box truck to a £60,000 vehicle is a huge leap.

Speaker 2 - 1:02
So I think what a lot of people are considering heavy are still within the medium category of what the old pay schedule was.

Speaker 3 - 1:17
I'm looking for the towing guideline.

Speaker 3 - 1:22
So that's going to be back in tab 9.

Speaker 3 - 1:30
In tab 9, let's look at page 25 to 26.

Speaker 3 - 1:36
And so at this point in the discussion, I I wrote, you know, have to defer in in large part to the experts.

Speaker 3 - 1:56
We have agreed and we understand that We understand that light duties, refers to vehicles and includes, as I have some notes, includes SUVs, right, minivans, and some trucks.

Speaker 3 - 2:25
I didn't know how to call those trucks.

Speaker 3 - 2:27
I don't know if they're light.

Speaker 1 - 2:28
Like trucks.

Speaker 1 - 2:29
The personal trucks.

Speaker 3 - 2:30
Personal truck.

Speaker 3 - 2:31
Have 150.

Speaker 3 - 2:31
4.

Speaker 3 - 2:32
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 2:33
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 2:33
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 2:33
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 2:34
Medium and heavy duty tows are used are used for commercial vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 2:38
So but I got that right.

Speaker 3 - 2:41
We do know that we could not determine what information was used to set the current weight guidelines.

Speaker 3 - 2:46
I did note that the rates, again, we voted and the growth rates are supported by benchmark studies and the industry trends, and we had vetted the TRC.

Speaker 3 - 2:59
So this is kinda getting this ready for our presentation.

Speaker 3 - 3:05
Again, if you look at page 25, I I think we need to have this discussion between the PNTs and the DPD to help us come to an agreement as to what we are gonna propose before the weight class.

Speaker 4 - 3:29
Can I ask you a question?

Speaker 4 - 3:30
Yes.

Speaker 4 - 3:31
So, captain Adams, you mentioned that the 26 was in the medium class.

Speaker 4 - 3:40
Is that what you and and you're proposing that

Speaker 2 - 3:42
it goes to 33rd.

Speaker 2 - 3:43
Well, current currently, it it's in the the medium class and also is 33.

Speaker 2 - 3:48
Everything up to £60,000 is in the medium class.

Speaker 2 - 3:52
So what what I'm proposing, if you look at the schedule, class 1 and class 2 light duty, these are light duty trucks which are half ton trucks, passenger vehicles.

Speaker 2 - 4:03
And then class 3 through class 7 is what I'm recommending to be the medium tows, which is a great change from the previous tow commission.

Speaker 4 - 4:12
What was the previous one then?

Speaker 2 - 4:13
600,000.

Speaker 2 - 4:14
60,000.

Speaker 2 - 4:15
This would cap at 33,000.

Speaker 2 - 4:17
When you look at class 8, these are the very large vehicles that I was talking about.

Speaker 2 - 4:22
Very large tractor trailers, very large pluses.

Speaker 2 - 4:26
I don't know what the the very vehicle on the right is.

Speaker 2 - 4:30
Maybe that's a, a cement truck.

Speaker 2 - 4:36
Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 - 4:37
And these are a a small part of the tow.

Speaker 2 - 4:41
Most of the vehicles are gonna fall into light duty.

Speaker 4 - 4:45
So it's rare to get anything over 60,000?

Speaker 4 - 4:48
60,000 is great.

Speaker 2 - 4:50
Considering how many vehicles we tow, yes.

Speaker 2 - 4:52
It's a very, very small percentage.

Speaker 2 - 4:54
But we do have to tow them, so it needs

Speaker 4 - 4:55
to be part of the schedule.

Speaker 4 - 4:57
Right.

Speaker 4 - 4:57
So you're actually, that that sounds advantageous for tows.
Speaker 4 - 5:04
Am I thinking about that correctly?

Speaker 4 - 5:07
Because because if they go over 33 now things are changing.

Speaker 4 - 5:10
If they go over 33, then that's 70.

Speaker 4 - 5:12
Is that what you're saying, man?

Speaker 4 - 5:13
That it should go It should be over 26.

Speaker 2 - 5:16
So I so, if I may, commissioner Goodwin is suggesting the cap for a median be at 26.

Speaker 2 - 5:22
I'm suggesting you would be at 33.

Speaker 3 - 5:26
And and the reason we're suggesting that it's at 26 is because that falls within the guidelines, like, medium, and heavy.

Speaker 3 - 5:37
The guidelines from the, TRAA Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 5:42
Is, you know, it has me heavy starting at 26,000.

Speaker 1 - 5:49
So this is If you look at the chart, class 7, where it's 26,000 to 3,000 different loans.

Speaker 1 - 5:56
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 5:56
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 5:57
3rd, 4.

Speaker 1 - 5:57
These are all heavy duty

Speaker 3 - 5:59
You owe a these these trucks.

Speaker 4 - 6:01
Mhmm.

Speaker 4 - 6:01
Thank you.

Speaker 1 - 6:03
So it belongs in the heavy duty category, after the 26,000 and white pounds.

Speaker 4 - 6:09
So, question I have is, cat Adam Adams, is your is your we don't know where the previous waste came from.

Speaker 4 - 6:20
So I guess I would ask, what is your rationale for deviating from this?

Speaker 2 - 6:26
The some of these trucks, like, 26,000 pound rental truck.

Speaker 2 - 6:31
Like, a 24, 26 foot rental truck falls in that £26,000.

Speaker 2 - 6:36
Those are common.

Speaker 2 - 6:37
Those auto and transmissions.

Speaker 2 - 6:39
Those are one of the common vehicles that we do tow and sometimes recover this stolen vehicles.

Speaker 2 - 6:45
The the tractor trailers, these these are very rare.

Speaker 2 - 6:50
I've not seen a commercial truck like cement mixer that was brought in.

Speaker 2 - 6:53
We've had 1 or 2 buses, I believe, this year just off of my memory because they're very rare.

Speaker 2 - 7:00
But these trucks fall into that medium category, and I believe there's different equipment that's used to tow buses in semi tractors as opposed to a rider rental truck or U Haul rental truck.

Speaker 2 - 7:12
This is a 26 foot box.

Speaker 2 - 7:14
That's my rationale behind them.

Speaker 2 - 7:16
Just practical application, they're not exactly the same.

Speaker 2 - 7:20
And then also, I I have to look at the outcome of what the previous commission was.

Speaker 2 - 7:25
I believe it was very intentional to have that space in there.

Speaker 2 - 7:28
There's a lot of I don't wanna say gray area, but the gross vehicle weight is one part of the rating.

Speaker 2 - 7:33
And the private tours have have illustrated with the recreational vehicles, the RVs, that the gross vehicle weight is not very high, but the bulk, the size, the length of the vehicle is problematic for them.

Speaker 2 - 7:45
And I understand that.

Speaker 2 - 7:47
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 7:47
But for some of these other vehicles, I don't see a real big difference between a 24 foot box truck and a 26 foot box truck, where the 24 would be a medium if it's £24,000 or £26,000, where the larger, the 26, would be 32,000 depending on the vehicle type.

Speaker 2 - 8:07
The brand, the f 550, may go going up into some of the bigger, bigger vehicles.

Speaker 2 - 8:11
So my rationale is what I've seen from practical application.

Speaker 1 - 8:16
If I may, I don't think we should be using the frequency of these tows to to guide the weights.

Speaker 1 - 8:22
It doesn't matter if it's a rare there's still a need for a heavy duty tow when it's a heavy duty tow.

Speaker 1 - 8:27
And these have been in practice, these types of vehicles, heavy duty tows.

Speaker 1 - 8:32
So there's really no reason to deviate from this.

Speaker 4 - 8:37
Yeah.

Speaker 4 - 8:39
But the current the current, you you were in medium all the way up to 60.

Speaker 4 - 8:43
Right?

Speaker 4 - 8:44
With the current way it was Mhmm.

Speaker 4 - 8:46
Was medium all the all
Speaker 5 - 8:47
the way up to 60.

Speaker 4 - 8:48
So my thought behind it is I mean, this right here, you know, we can refer back to it.

Speaker 4 - 8:55
If we if we deviate from it, we have to I think we have to have have some rationale recorded on why you deviate from it because it's kinda coming from here, I think.

Speaker 4 - 9:07
You know, I'm not sure this is the industry some type of industry standard, or so if you deviate if you do deviate, I think you got a document why you do it because you're gonna refer back to this document the next time.

Speaker 4 - 9:22
But within within his rationale would have to be recorded somehow.

Speaker 1 - 9:28
And this is for vehicles.

Speaker 1 - 9:29
Let's let's be clear.

Speaker 1 - 9:30
This is not for both super configures.

Speaker 2 - 9:32
So if I if if I may, if we're gonna if we're not if we're gonna stick to GBW, then then gross vehicle weight, we need to do that for all categories then.

Speaker 2 - 9:39
So that means boats and RVs need to be at GBW and not based on length.

Speaker 2 - 9:44
So that if that's the case, we can't

Speaker 4 - 9:46
So on this, there's already a deviation.

Speaker 4 - 9:48
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 9:48
So we can't so we can't demean from 9 as well.

Speaker 4 - 9:51
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 9:51
It'll be GBW.

Speaker 4 - 9:53
If if I may,

Speaker 3 - 9:54
I thought Let's see if they have any other chair.

Speaker 4 - 9:56
Pastor.

Speaker 4 - 9:58
What?

Speaker 4 - 9:59
Well, I thought with his original proposal that it did, I thought it was at least advantageous that you're going to lower when you get into heavy duty now.

Speaker 4 - 10:11
So if you're 33, you're gonna get a heavy duty, rate.

Speaker 4 - 10:17
Whereas before, we didn't get that heavy duty rate till you got to 60.

Speaker 4 - 10:22
So so I said you got £27,000 there now more than you're gonna have.

Speaker 4 - 10:28
You're gonna be paying more.

Speaker 4 - 10:29
So I'm I'm saying sort of a compromise.

Speaker 4 - 10:31
If if you did go to 33, then you're still starting at 33 for further your heavy toes.

Speaker 4 - 10:39
So it is sort of a I mean, it it it seems that the medium becomes advantageous for you because you don't go up 60 anymore.

Speaker 4 - 10:48
You're only getting a, a, a, you know, medium tow for £60,000.

Speaker 4 - 10:55
Now you'll get a heavy tow from 34 up to 60.

Speaker 4 - 10:59
And what you said about deviating with other, that's probably, also a rationale.

Speaker 4 - 11:07
But, anyway, my thoughts.

Speaker 3 - 11:10
So here are my thoughts.

Speaker 3 - 11:13
We I I don't think it's fair to go back to the current guidelines because we have no support and no documentation for those.

Speaker 3 - 11:22
That's one of the things that this commission will not happen or allowed to happen is the rates that we proposed have been will have been thoroughly vetted and supported and agreed upon.

Speaker 3 - 11:35
And so with that in mind, I, as Mark pointed out, I think we should, go with the industry standards.

Speaker 3 - 11:45
I will ask Mark to make sure that this is the latest standards and that this document has been done with all of our documents because it is affordable.

Speaker 3 - 11:55
It's it's it's black and white.

Speaker 3 - 11:58
Now when we have so if we agree to do that for this, for vehicles, then we will have this same discussion at the next slide when we talk about the next category.

Speaker 3 - 12:12
So that's my proposal, to to do 2 things.

Speaker 3 - 12:16
1st, verify that this is the the current rates or proposed rates.

Speaker 3 - 12:21
This is the authoritative association.

Speaker 3 - 12:26
Because, like, in in our industry, we have the ones that are authoritative, and then you have all the others.

Speaker 3 - 12:33
So we'll we will do our due diligence to make sure that this is the authority authoritative, organization.

Speaker 3 - 12:41
And my proposal is that we use these classifications, light, medium, and heavy for our weight guidelines.
Speaker 3 - 12:50
Any more discussion?

Speaker 3 - 12:54
I just

Speaker 1 - 12:54
think that I agree with you.

Speaker 1 - 12:56
And I think, the mention of the length came up before we get to the top.

Speaker 3 - 13:00
Let's just take a look at that because that's next.

Speaker 3 - 13:02
That's next.

Speaker 3 - 13:02
We'll focus on this.

Speaker 3 - 13:03
Right.

Speaker 3 - 13:04
And, if we and then Which is next apples to apples.

Speaker 3 - 13:08
Let's.

Speaker 3 - 13:10
So are the commissioners ready to vote?

Speaker 3 - 13:13
Do you do we want any more discussion?

Speaker 3 - 13:15
Captain Adams, I'll open it up to you as well.

Speaker 2 - 13:21
So we may not, as a commission Tory Commission, refer back to the old schedule of city council name.

Speaker 2 - 13:28
And the one thing it has to be it has to be understood is that it has to be simple because this is for a large government agency and the rates have to be understandable for the layperson.

Speaker 2 - 13:41
So our schedule can't be overly complicated.

Speaker 2 - 13:44
So I think that a £27,000 change from media to heavy is very substantial.

Speaker 2 - 13:49
I think it's more than reasonable.

Speaker 2 - 13:52
And I would not support the police department support the change at 26,000 pounds.

Speaker 2 - 13:57
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 13:59
I think we

Speaker 3 - 14:00
should take a vote.

Speaker 3 - 14:01
And desire, they can't get a unanimous vote at this time, but you should take a vote so that we can move on to the next candidates.

Speaker 3 - 14:11
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 14:13
May I have a motion?

Speaker 1 - 14:15
Motion to approve.

Speaker 1 - 14:16
The TRAA vehicle identification

Speaker 5 - 14:28
guide.

Speaker 5 - 14:29
Oh, I gotta think of I was just going to say that we're trying to approve and loosen the TRL guidelines for the, weight and then whatever comes after that.

Speaker 5 - 14:46
Sake of consistency.

Speaker 3 - 14:48
So this so you, we have it correct.

Speaker 3 - 14:50
The motion is to approve, using the TRA guidelines, the the post weight guidelines for vehicles for the light, medium, and heavy duty tows.

Speaker 3 - 15:04
All in favor?

Speaker 4 - 15:05
Aye.

Speaker 3 - 15:05
Aye.

Speaker 4 - 15:06
All those.

Speaker 4 - 15:06
Aye.

Speaker 3 - 15:09
The boat carriage.

Speaker 3 - 15:12
Are there any other comments that, and I I I just ask that you you think about this and over the next week.

Speaker 3 - 15:19
Any other verbiage that we may want to add to the schedule?

Speaker 3 - 15:24
This was preliminary.

Speaker 3 - 15:25
Just trying to get my thoughts about how I'm gonna present this in the most clear and cohesive fashion.

Speaker 3 - 15:34
So if you do, just send it to me and let me know.

Speaker 1 - 15:38
I was just gonna say, I do think that city council will appreciate that we did due diligence on this.

Speaker 1 - 15:45
And that still keeps it to 3 categories, so it doesn't overcomplicate.

Speaker 1 - 15:49
It just change changes the weight in each category.

Speaker 3 - 15:53
It doesn't add categories.

Speaker 3 - 15:55
I appreciate the work that we did, over the last few weeks to narrow the the categories, narrow the classifications, agree on the rates.

Speaker 3 - 16:07
And let's say these 2 the weight down guidelines are really the only 2 open issues that we have.

Speaker 3 - 16:13
We've just closed one of the vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 16:16
And now onto what I'm sure will be a very robust discussion is on the next second category, which we all agreed that both trailers and RVs commission agreed that that is 1 a single category.

Speaker 3 - 16:37
The current rates are a $100 for each one of those.

Speaker 3 - 16:40
There aren't any current rate guidelines, as my understanding Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 16:45
At this point.

Speaker 3 - 16:46
The proposed toll rates from the, DTA and PATs is 225, 507100.

Speaker 3 - 16:54
The commission agreed that we would go, that that we agreed that we would go forward with those proposed rates.
Speaker 3 - 17:03
And I do wanna just stop and talk and, jump over to the weight guidelines before we talk about storage and the disposal rates.

Speaker 3 - 17:13
K?

Speaker 3 - 17:14
Those 2 different things.

Speaker 3 - 17:15
Yes?

Speaker 3 - 17:16
One correction.

Speaker 3 - 17:17
The medium duty should

Speaker 1 - 17:18
be 425.

Speaker 1 - 17:19
We're keeping it consistent with the other rates.

Speaker 3 - 17:24
What other rates?

Speaker 3 - 17:26
The equal rate.

Speaker 3 - 17:33
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 17:51
Well, see, I thought it was, because the original proposal had trailers, RVs Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 18:03
Immediately duty at 500.

Speaker 3 - 18:06
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 18:06
We wanted to recommend 425

Speaker 3 - 18:08
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 18:10
Instead of the 500.

Speaker 3 - 18:11
Right.

Speaker 3 - 18:12
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 18:22
Alright.

Speaker 3 - 18:22
So we'll make the change.

Speaker 3 - 18:24
I can probably do it here, but we'll make the change.

Speaker 3 - 18:27
And then is the heavy duty at 700?

Speaker 3 - 18:30
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 18:31
So that was a change even from the second proposal that you presented.

Speaker 3 - 18:38
The second proposal actually has a a typo.

Speaker 3 - 18:44
Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 18:45
That votes at 220 they had the to the 500.

Speaker 3 - 18:50
We talked about it being 225 that was the title.

Speaker 3 - 18:55
225.

Speaker 3 - 18:56
And then the it had the notes 17 to 24 at 700.

Speaker 3 - 19:03
But all the others, the trailers and RVs were 225,507 100.

Speaker 3 - 19:12
So now you're saying, just to be clear Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 19:14
That is 425.

Speaker 3 - 19:16
Correct.

Speaker 3 - 19:16
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 19:18
I'd like to have a motion to approve the commission going forward with both trailers and R and B's medium duty tows the proposed weight at 425.

Speaker 4 - 19:52
You're using the word wait.

Speaker 2 - 19:53
Am I missing something?

Speaker 2 - 19:55
Wait.

Speaker 3 - 19:55
Hours.

Speaker 3 - 19:56
Right.

Speaker 3 - 19:56
Right.

Speaker 3 - 19:57
This will now be No.

Speaker 3 - 19:57
Toll rate.

Speaker 4 - 19:59
I'm simply saying that you're using proposed weight guidelines where

Speaker 3 - 20:02
We haven't gone over there yet.

Speaker 5 - 20:04
The far right.

Speaker 4 - 20:05
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 20:05
Because it's it's it's not letter.

Speaker 4 - 20:07
It's not weight.

Speaker 4 - 20:08
It's it's

Speaker 3 - 20:10
It's weight and guidelines, though.

Speaker 3 - 20:12
It's

Speaker 2 - 20:12
how she's Okay.

Speaker 4 - 20:13
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 20:13
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 20:14
So we'll get to it.

Speaker 3 - 20:15
So Get

Speaker 4 - 20:15
to it.

Speaker 3 - 20:16
We're not here yet.

Speaker 3 - 20:17
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 20:19
So this will not be 425.

Speaker 2 - 20:21
But, ma'am, if I may, ma'am,

Speaker 2 - 20:23
I may, mister.

Speaker 4 - 20:23
if

Speaker 2 - 20:24
If we're sticking to GBW for vehicles, then RVs should not be in this category.

Speaker 2 - 20:30
Because if that is our deciding factor, the gross vehicle weighted vehicle should fall under all of the other motor vehicles.

Speaker 2 - 20:36
Because on that, trailers and boats are not motor vehicles.

Speaker 2 - 20:40
Meaning, they're not registered to be driven by their own on on a roadway or highway.

Speaker 2 - 20:46
So RV should fit under regular motor vehicles on the schedule previously voted on.

Speaker 3 - 20:54
As a vehicle?

Speaker 2 - 20:55
Because it's a it is a motor vehicle registered to be on the roadway.

Speaker 2 - 20:55
Yes.

Speaker 2 - 20:59
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 21:00
Since we since we we decided as a commission, I oppose, but we said as a commission to approve the, vehicle identification guide, then we have to stick to that then for continuity.

Speaker 3 - 21:14
Alright.

Speaker 3 - 21:14
So that's a separate issue, a new item, but worthy of discussion.

Speaker 1 - 21:20
I think this is the way that you were categorized in the ordinance altogether, and I think that's why we categorically put these together.
Speaker 3 - 21:27
Well, no.

Speaker 3 - 21:28
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 21:28
I was gonna ask why well, but but when you submitted the rates, both trailers and vehicles were all submitted and RVs were all submitted separately.

Speaker 3 - 21:39
We discussed and decided at the last meeting that it made sense to put it together.

Speaker 3 - 21:44
Right?

Speaker 3 - 21:44
Why did we do that?

Speaker 2 - 21:46
Well, so that was under my assumption that we were we weren't gonna be guided solely by that document.

Speaker 2 - 21:51
So now that we're guided solely by that document, the rationale is we have compromise on that.

Speaker 2 - 21:57
Motor home.

Speaker 2 - 21:58
Correct?

Speaker 4 - 21:58
It's RV considered motor home?

Speaker 4 - 22:00
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 22:00
And that

Speaker 4 - 22:01
so we got motor home right here in in in last week or 6.

Speaker 1 - 22:05
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 22:06
And I, I would like Troy because he, Troy or Matt, because they're heavy duty towers, to speak to this.

Speaker 1 - 22:12
Because they know why this has been an issue in the past on the link.

Speaker 1 - 22:16
Well well, let

Speaker 3 - 22:17
me let let let me suggest this because it may be a moot point where we classify it.

Speaker 3 - 22:22
I think we need to move to the the next big question is how are we going what is going to be the guidelines for boats and trailers?

Speaker 3 - 22:31
And RVs will may or may not fall out.

Speaker 3 - 22:34
Right?

Speaker 3 - 22:36
So that's the next big question.

Speaker 3 - 22:39
And then let's get back to where RVs should fit because that may give us the answer.

Speaker 3 - 22:45
Is that okay?

Speaker 3 - 22:46
Alright.

Speaker 3 - 22:50
Captain Adams, you are suggesting that since we are following the TRA guidelines, that they should be applied to both trailers and RVs.

Speaker 3 - 23:00
How would that work in this

Speaker 4 - 23:02
Only RVs.

Speaker 4 - 23:02
Right?

Speaker 3 - 23:03
Well Well, RVs if the vehicles would would fall if you went to weights, it would still fall within

Speaker 4 - 23:09
the city.

Speaker 4 - 23:10
Our our views are registered like you see.

Speaker 4 - 23:11
You drive boats, trailers, and okay.

Speaker 4 - 23:14
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 - 23:15
My point is, if we, as a commission, say that we're going to stick to the trade unit, guidelines for all of the classifications, it will fall in a medium tow regardless of whether it's here, under this category, or vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 23:33
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 23:33
You see what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 - 23:34
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 23:35
So I think that's we should deal with that afterwards.

Speaker 3 - 23:41
The bigger question is how what are going to be the guidelines to separate, medium light, medium, heavy toes for this category.

Speaker 3 - 23:55
And for purposes of discussion, we can exclude RVs at this

Speaker 5 - 24:00
point.

Speaker 5 - 24:02
Sure.

Speaker 5 - 24:02
If I may, madam chair.

Speaker 5 - 24:04
So what we should, at least, for the sake of experience is to cross out that ROV from the second aspect.

Speaker 5 - 24:04
Yes.

Speaker 5 - 24:12
You know?

Speaker 5 - 24:13
We're no we we we remove it.

Speaker 5 - 24:16
And then in your previous page where in the previous page where we have the 2 rates, I know that, on the footnote a, in the footnote a, your previous slide in where we have light duty codes include where it comes to or where about medium.

Speaker 5 - 24:34
We can now include our fees in that, footprint over there.

Speaker 5 - 24:40
That should clarify that for us.

Speaker 5 - 24:40
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 24:42
Can can I ask how they

Speaker 1 - 24:44
present it from the past?

Speaker 3 - 24:45
Let me let me ask.

Speaker 1 - 24:46
How have they been handled?

Speaker 1 - 24:48
Or else we need to know.

Speaker 3 - 24:49
Let let me ask the question.

Speaker 3 - 24:52
And I'm the director to captain Hamels.

Speaker 3 - 24:54
You suggested that since we use this, for vehicles, this says clearly says to me, the trade vehicle identification identification guide, we should apply or use weights as the guideline for boats and trailers.
Speaker 3 - 25:11
And I'd like you to explain that line of of thinking.

Speaker 3 - 25:16
Because this is vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 25:18
It doesn't say boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 25:20
So what's your, line of thinking?

Speaker 3 - 25:25
What's your rationale for saying we need to use weights for boats and trailers?

Speaker 2 - 25:32
Because according to that document, the most important factor is gross payable weight.

Speaker 2 - 25:38
So the other considerations that we were gonna be from that don't make sense now.

Speaker 2 - 25:43
Because if we're basing our decisions off of gross vehicle weight, we need to be consistent with that all

Speaker 1 - 25:48
the way through.

Speaker 1 - 25:49
But they're talking about vehicles.

Speaker 1 - 25:50
They're not talking about small bed trailers.

Speaker 2 - 25:52
So motor vehicle so this document, I'm not not sure of it of it's origin or what state, but states have their own legal definition.

Speaker 2 - 26:01
So in Michigan, the definition of a motor vehicle is driven on its own to be registered on the roadway.

Speaker 2 - 26:07
So a vehicle is designed for off road use exclusively is not considered a motor vehicle under that context.

Speaker 3 - 26:14
Well, for for purposes of this discussion, this category, let's take the RVs out.

Speaker 3 - 26:18
Boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 26:19
How do we classify totals?

Speaker 3 - 26:22
That's the main question.

Speaker 3 - 26:23
Is it length?

Speaker 3 - 26:24
Is it weight?

Speaker 3 - 26:24
Is it something else?

Speaker 3 - 26:26
This is the same question we we had last, week that we were hoping to have this robust discussion so we can come to some agreement.

Speaker 3 - 26:36
And on the one hand, I could say this is the new vehicle.

Speaker 3 - 26:41
So if I take RVs out, it doesn't necessarily apply to boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 26:49
There's there's this whole new category.

Speaker 3 - 26:51
And I and so what is the best way what is the right way to classify those tolls?

Speaker 3 - 27:00
Is it weight or is it length?

Speaker 3 - 27:02
To me and I'm a lay person.

Speaker 3 - 27:04
I'm not in the business.

Speaker 3 - 27:06
I would look at this and say, well, this doesn't apply to boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 27:09
There's no pictures of boats and trailers here.

Speaker 3 - 27:11
How could I apply weights to boats and trailers to try to classify lightning and and heavy because it's not there.

Speaker 3 - 27:18
So I don't know if there's a document that that that helps us classify boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 27:26
Boats on a trailer, trailer by itself, boat by itself.

Speaker 3 - 27:30
I know that one of the if I recall, one of the earlier suggestion was, let's think about the type of boat.

Speaker 3 - 27:38
Right?

Speaker 3 - 27:38
And maybe we have to go back to that.

Speaker 3 - 27:42
But I would put forth that the just because we've decided to use this for vehicles, and maybe RVs rightfully so, does move into vehicles to make it clean, then that's for vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 27:59
But we we do need to determine boats and trailers.

Speaker 4 - 28:03
Mhmm.

Speaker 4 - 28:04
Is there any guy is there any, like, something like this, identification of weights?

Speaker 4 - 28:14
You know, you mentioned about being consistent, and that's where I think I think that is probably better.

Speaker 4 - 28:19
That is that is identifiable.

Speaker 4 - 28:22
You can measure.

Speaker 4 - 28:24
And also, now the police are tours.

Speaker 4 - 28:29
You are a tower now, where when I did it in 12, the police were not towing.

Speaker 4 - 28:34
But I said that to say, I I I listen to the towers, a lot because, of course, they invest their expertise.

Speaker 4 - 28:41
But in this instance here, I how could you use I guess I would pose that question.

Speaker 4 - 28:46
How could you use weights and you don't know what they are?

Speaker 4 - 28:48
There's no guidance.

Speaker 2 - 28:49
So for, trailers and boats, they're gonna be under $10,000 unless it's an an an industry commercial trailer, and those will have a rating by manufacturer.
Speaker 1 - 29:05
But then the issue is it doesn't fit the light duty flatbed.

Speaker 1 - 29:08
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 - 29:09
And so it's a medium or heavy duty top.

Speaker 1 - 29:10
Detail.

Speaker 2 - 29:11
So one of the if I may and I'm not trying to muddy the water, so I just wanna use this as an example.

Speaker 2 - 29:15
And it and we haven't voted on.

Speaker 2 - 29:17
We haven't agreed to it.

Speaker 2 - 29:18
But the length for a motor home at 24 feet, motor homes are measured from the rear bumper to the front bumper.

Speaker 2 - 29:24
And so, effectively, that's a 16 foot truck, a box truck with with the the cab on it.

Speaker 2 - 29:32
And so now a motor home that is the same close to a 16 or 18 foot box truck is getting a heavy tow.

Speaker 2 - 29:40
It's it doesn't make sense because the gross vehicle weight of that is not a heavy tow.

Speaker 2 - 29:44
And so the length can be an issue also.

Speaker 2 - 29:46
Where are we measuring from?

Speaker 2 - 29:47
Are we measuring for both the vessel?

Speaker 2 - 29:49
Are we measuring the trailer?

Speaker 2 - 29:52
And then are we measuring the trailer from the traction.

Speaker 2 - 29:55
To the motor?

Speaker 2 - 29:56
Like, where do we

Speaker 3 - 29:58
Should we first then I thought we could do a second.

Speaker 3 - 30:02
2nd, should we vote 1st vote and decide on where RVs should be?

Speaker 3 - 30:09
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 30:10
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 30:12
You wanna make a motion?

Speaker 2 - 30:13
I make a motion that RVs be treated on the, TRA vehicle identification guide that was previously over there by those vehicle weight.

Speaker 1 - 30:24
Can he do that since he didn't support the the guide?

Speaker 1 - 30:28
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 30:28
From just point of order?

Speaker 1 - 30:29
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 30:30
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 30:30
It doesn't

Speaker 3 - 30:31
look like this guidance.

Speaker 3 - 30:32
So now he's saying use it.

Speaker 3 - 30:34
It it it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 - 30:35
The commission voted and approved it.

Speaker 3 - 30:37
It does you know, whether it was unanimous or 3 to 4 or whatever.

Speaker 3 - 30:41
It it it's approved.

Speaker 3 - 30:43
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 30:43
We have decided to use the trade for vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 30:47
Captain Adams has motion that RVs are are rightfully classified as vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 30:54
They're identifiable on the vehicle identification guide, and he's motioned that they be included in vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 31:04
Discussion?

Speaker 3 - 31:05
What's what's your this, discussion?

Speaker 1 - 31:08
I just think we are trying to simplify boats and trailers, by length as a guideline because the weight does not suffice.

Speaker 1 - 31:17
So I just wanna be clear on that.

Speaker 3 - 31:19
And this this actually makes it easier to do that.

Speaker 3 - 31:22
Right.

Speaker 3 - 31:22
Have a discussion on just boats and trailers.

Speaker 1 - 31:25
Right.

Speaker 1 - 31:25
So RVs, I think there is a length issue when it comes to, the flat the light duty flatbed, and I think that needs to be considered as well.

Speaker 3 - 31:38
In what way?

Speaker 3 - 31:40
In in the The question is, how do we categorize RVs?

Speaker 3 - 31:47
Are they in this category, boats and trailers, or are they in the vehicle category?

Speaker 1 - 31:51
That's They are in the vehicle category, so I support that.

Speaker 1 - 31:54
But I think there's oh, there's a gray area just like I showed you 35 slides last week.

Speaker 1 - 31:59
Yes.

Speaker 1 - 31:59
There's gray areas of towing.

Speaker 1 - 32:01
It's not all, oh, it neatly fits this and you no.

Speaker 1 - 32:03
Sometimes they're overloaded with debris and a medium duty tow may become a heavy duty tow because it weighs 60,000 miles.

Speaker 3 - 32:09
And we we we discussed there are always gonna be gray areas.

Speaker 3 - 32:13
Right.

Speaker 3 - 32:14
By what I've said what I've said as chair is, you're always going to have gray areas.

Speaker 3 - 32:20
They're always going to I shouldn't say they're always.
Speaker 3 - 32:22
There may be issues where you get the wrong call.

Speaker 3 - 32:26
And they're Or dispatch a tow.

Speaker 3 - 32:28
Yep.

Speaker 3 - 32:28
Those are operational issues Right.

Speaker 3 - 32:31
That I hope and I believe that you and the PGTs will be able to work with the the DPD to iron out those issues, to come up with better processes.

Speaker 3 - 32:43
A lot of that has to do with how are you gonna streamline your processes.

Speaker 3 - 32:46
And now that this is all coming out, it's a better opportunity Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 32:51
You know, to sit down and say, hey, this is, you you know, one of the things that came out in in the in the commission.

Speaker 3 - 32:58
Let's try to work this out.

Speaker 3 - 32:59
Right.

Speaker 3 - 32:59
So but but it's it's not appropriate for us to try to put a rate out and and consider all those one offs.

Speaker 1 - 33:12
Right.

Speaker 1 - 33:12
But when when I I guess my my issue is, yes, it is operational, but there there's a rate involved and the rate the toower should be paid the rate for the fair amount of work they've done.

Speaker 1 - 33:21
If they've towed a heavy duty tow and it's an RV that fits a medium duty tow but required a heavy duty piece of equipment, they should be paid the heavy duty piece of equipment.

Speaker 3 - 33:30
And I'm suggesting again that those kinds of conversations, I believe you could have direct with captain Evan.

Speaker 3 - 33:36
So Thank you.

Speaker 3 - 33:37
Would you make the motion again so that we can, second it and and okay.

Speaker 2 - 33:42
Yes.

Speaker 2 - 33:43
I motion that the motor homes included at any TRAA vehicle identified identification guide that was previously voted and approved by the commission based on gross bill and weight.

Speaker 3 - 33:57
All in favor?

Speaker 3 - 33:58
Aye.

Speaker 3 - 33:59
Aye.

Speaker 3 - 33:59
Aye.

Speaker 3 - 33:59
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 34:00
Alright.

Speaker 3 - 34:01
So RVs come up.

Speaker 3 - 34:03
Post co rate goes to 425.

Speaker 3 - 34:06
Now the question is, this category is boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 34:11
And for for purposes of the public and even myself, is boats by itself?

Speaker 3 - 34:18
A boat on a trailer?

Speaker 3 - 34:20
A trailer by itself?

Speaker 3 - 34:21
A trailer and a boat?

Speaker 3 - 34:22
I don't know.

Speaker 3 - 34:23
Maybe a trailer on a boat.

Speaker 3 - 34:26
But that's this classification.

Speaker 3 - 34:28
It's light, medium, heavy.

Speaker 3 - 34:30
The question on the table that we need to decide as a commission is what will be the weight and this is, it should be safe, weight and guideline.

Speaker 3 - 34:42
In this case, what will be the guideline to distinguish those 3 types of toes?

Speaker 3 - 34:51
The, the, PATs, the DTA have proposed those lengths.

Speaker 3 - 34:59
16 foot and under is light.

Speaker 3 - 35:03
17 to 24 medium, over 24 heavy.

Speaker 3 - 35:08
That has been proposed.

Speaker 3 - 35:09
I'll open up the floor for discussion to you, captain Adams, since that is what's being proposed by the PHDs.

Speaker 2 - 35:18
So for purpose of discussion, when we discuss length, are we discussing the vessel length for boats?

Speaker 2 - 35:24
The on a trailer, are we discussing the box of the trailer?

Speaker 2 - 35:29
For instance, for an enclosed trailer, are we including the overall length of the vessel, the boat on on the trailer, and an enclosed trailer with the tongue to the ball?

Speaker 2 - 35:40
Overall.

Speaker 2 - 35:40
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 35:42
So if if these measurements, if that's the case, are

Speaker 4 - 35:46
overall, a 16 foot

Speaker 2 - 35:46
boat would be a you just minus 3 or 4

Speaker 4 - 35:57
feet from 16 feet, you end up with

Speaker 2 - 35:57
13 to 12 feet.

Speaker 2 - 35:59
You just minus 3 or 4 feet from 16 feet, you end up with 13 to 12 feet.

Speaker 2 - 36:05
So the minimum, I believe, for light should be 20 feet.

Speaker 1 - 36:12
Madam chair, I think we need to hear from the experts, on that because they told you some votes.
Speaker 1 - 36:19
And I I don't I don't agree.

Speaker 1 - 36:21
I need to hear from Troy because he tells the majority of the votes in Detroit.

Speaker 1 - 36:26
K.

Speaker 3 - 36:26
1st, I'd like to make sure I understand, your point.

Speaker 3 - 36:33
So you said, Peggy, that this is the overall length of, let's say, a boat on the trail.

Speaker 3 - 36:40
And if I could draw, I'd probably just draw a boat on the trail.

Speaker 3 - 36:46
Right?

Speaker 3 - 36:47
Is that what the length is facing?

Speaker 1 - 36:49
That's what we discussed.

Speaker 1 - 36:50
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 36:52
And Because there were no guidelines within the city.

Speaker 1 - 36:55
So we had to do our own research and discuss them amongst ourselves.

Speaker 3 - 36:59
I understand.

Speaker 3 - 37:01
And captain Adams, you're suggesting that if if I interpret what you're saying, is that if it's the over

Speaker 4 - 37:15
all

Speaker 3 - 37:15
category, then if you had a 16 foot overall limb, that a portion of that is just the trailer itself.

Speaker 3 - 37:25
In the sense you you the the boat is only, what you said, 13 feet.

Speaker 3 - 37:29
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 37:30
And that's not necessarily realistic realistic is what you're Correct.

Speaker 3 - 37:35
Suggesting.

Speaker 3 - 37:36
And is that because why is that is there, I mean, a a range of a small boat?

Speaker 3 - 37:44
So a boat

Speaker 2 - 37:45
of that size would be like an aluminum boat with an outboard motor.

Speaker 2 - 37:50
It'd be very, very small or a personal watercraft like a jet ski on a trailer of that size.

Speaker 2 - 37:56
They're I can't think of many vehicles that we've impounded this year of boats that would fit in that category.

Speaker 2 - 38:04
Most boats are the the actual vessel are gonna be between 14 20 feet.

Speaker 2 - 38:12
It's typical for your your sportsman bow or your fishing boat.

Speaker 2 - 38:17
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 38:19
And so you're saying with that let me just make sure I understand it.

Speaker 3 - 38:22
And and I'll open it up and you can open up the door.

Speaker 3 - 38:25
What you're saying with that, if the average boat boat is 14 to 15 feet and you add a couple of inches before after trailer, and it's about a trailer, then that's gonna put it over 16 feet for the majority of the case.

Speaker 2 - 38:40
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 38:41
And that's why you're suggesting that light be 20 and under or something a little bit higher than 6 6.

Speaker 2 - 38:48
At at a very minimum 20 for for, like

Speaker 3 - 38:52
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 38:53
So I understand that right now.

Speaker 1 - 38:54
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 38:55
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 38:55
I mean, how much you said?

Speaker 1 - 38:56
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 38:56
I just I just wanna say that before Tory speaks that if this if this if this information exists, why do we have it?

Speaker 1 - 39:03
Why did we have to go through all this work to come up with something?

Speaker 1 - 39:07
Because there's no standard in the industry.

Speaker 1 - 39:09
We can't find it.

Speaker 1 - 39:10
But if Detroit Police has it, why aren't they forthcoming in bringing it to us?

Speaker 3 - 39:14
It would have been that I would we're not gonna go back and forth.

Speaker 3 - 39:17
I will make a comment.

Speaker 3 - 39:17
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 39:19
You proposed your rates.

Speaker 3 - 39:21
We're here discussing them.

Speaker 3 - 39:22
Catherine has right to, you know, we're at the point where we're now just discussing this.

Speaker 3 - 39:28
So I ask both of you all to come back with, I hope you've had some discussions.

Speaker 3 - 39:34
To come back with what is the weight.

Speaker 3 - 39:37
What what what do you have to offer to support your 16 foot?

Speaker 3 - 39:41
So it's right.

Speaker 3 - 39:42
It's I

Speaker 1 - 39:43
have expertise of the police authorized towers

Speaker 3 - 39:45
in there.

Speaker 3 - 39:46
Hear from him.

Speaker 3 - 39:47
But I don't think it's fair to say why didn't they provide it.
Speaker 3 - 39:50
It's not up to them to provide it.

Speaker 3 - 39:52
You provided the proposed rates.

Speaker 3 - 39:54
He's bringing it up into the discussion.

Speaker 1 - 39:56
That's the they're the governing body.

Speaker 1 - 39:58
I mean, if they're if they have their guidelines, we need to know what those guidelines are.

Speaker 4 - 40:02
They're not told

Speaker 2 - 40:03
the governing body city councilors.

Speaker 1 - 40:03
to be aware of.

Speaker 4 - 40:03
They're not

Speaker 1 - 40:05
But they're not published is my point.

Speaker 1 - 40:07
So if these guidelines exist, the Torah should be privy to them.

Speaker 1 - 40:11
We should all be privy to them.

Speaker 3 - 40:13
Let me say it again.

Speaker 3 - 40:15
I think this pink finger pointing is not not fruitful.

Speaker 3 - 40:18
It's it it it is.

Speaker 3 - 40:19
Because this is all new.

Speaker 3 - 40:22
There were no guidelines.

Speaker 3 - 40:23
So you've got some guidelines.

Speaker 3 - 40:25
He's suggesting some and we may decide that nothing that's being said here today.

Speaker 3 - 40:31
We have enough to even vote on it.

Speaker 3 - 40:33
We may have to go back and you may have to bring some more hard evidence with your from Troy.

Speaker 3 - 40:39
And captain Adams may have to bring back some more hard evidence.

Speaker 3 - 40:42
We may have to decide that there's a whole different way to look at boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 40:48
What's it from Troy?

Speaker 3 - 40:50
I want this from mister Guignard.

Speaker 3 - 40:52
State your name?

Speaker 4 - 40:53
Troy.

Speaker 4 - 40:54
Thank you.

Speaker 4 - 40:54
I I just wanted to clarify because I think there is a little bit of misunderstanding going on.

Speaker 4 - 40:59
This chart is accurate, but it's accurate for the size of the boat.

Speaker 4 - 41:04
So the 16th to 16 foot with a trailer is up to about 19 feet, which can go on light duty flatbed carrier.

Speaker 4 - 41:16
Yes.

Speaker 4 - 41:16
The trailer is no good.

Speaker 3 - 41:17
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 41:18
If

Speaker 4 - 41:18
the trailer is ready I I so I think that I'm agreeing with captain Adams.

Speaker 4 - 41:21
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 41:22
But I think that our that our limbs are still a little bit off because he's standing up to 20 feet, but it's really from 16 to 19 is where you add the 3 to 3 and a half feet for the trailer.

Speaker 4 - 41:33
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 41:34
So and how am I telling you this information?

Speaker 4 - 41:36
We've been towing them.

Speaker 4 - 41:37
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 41:38
So one option is it could be 19 feet and under or 20 feet and under.

Speaker 4 - 41:44
Well We

Speaker 3 - 41:44
we could Yeah.

Speaker 4 - 41:45
But these guidelines are for the vessels.

Speaker 4 - 41:46
For

Speaker 1 - 41:47
the vessels.

Speaker 4 - 41:48
So so we're counting them.

Speaker 1 - 41:49
I'm just right.

Speaker 4 - 41:50
Yeah.

Speaker 4 - 41:50
So when we say these lengths, we are counting for question.

Speaker 4 - 41:53
With the trailers.

Speaker 4 - 41:54
So if

Speaker 2 - 41:55
I may so to to to Troy's point, a 16 foot boat, the overall length on the trailer would be 19 20 feet.

Speaker 2 - 42:02
Okay.

Speaker 4 - 42:02
Correct.

Speaker 4 - 42:02
Alright.

Speaker 4 - 42:03
I think we're I think yeah.

Speaker 4 - 42:04
I think we're all kinda on the same page.

Speaker 2 - 42:07
We just had a little misunderstanding.

Speaker 2 - 42:09
So we need to define, if if I may, motion that we define that boats are bought by the vessel, not the trailer.

Speaker 2 - 42:18
And we will and with this caveat that we are considering the length of the trailer with the best and size.

Speaker 1 - 42:24
If they have a tray if it has a trailer, it's not their gray area.

Speaker 1 - 42:28
If if it doesn't have

Speaker 3 - 42:29
a trailer, then the 16 foot is gonna fall in the light duty.

Speaker 3 - 42:34
From what I think is for the sake of clarity, if we say it's the overall length.

Speaker 3 - 42:43
Right?
Speaker 3 - 42:44
Whether it's a boat by itself or a boat in a trailer, then that's what we should do.

Speaker 3 - 42:49
It's the overall length.

Speaker 3 - 42:51
And then we set the the length based on that overall length.

Speaker 3 - 42:55
If it's a boat in the trailer and you said it's 19 or 20 feet, if it's just the boat, it's gonna be likely.

Speaker 3 - 43:01
Right?

Speaker 3 - 43:02
If it's a bigger boat and a bigger trailer, then it's gonna move to the next medium.

Speaker 3 - 43:08
So that's my suggestion.

Speaker 3 - 43:10
I will ask, Troy at this point, if you can what what would be your recommended lens for life, medium, and heavy?

Speaker 3 - 43:24
Based on what we now understand.

Speaker 4 - 43:27
So the the problem is is that once you have a vessel with the trailer Yes.

Speaker 4 - 43:35
That exceeds 22 feet, Now you're out of medium duty range.

Speaker 4 - 43:41
Now you're definitely into a heavy duty boat.

Speaker 4 - 43:43
I mean, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 - 43:44
Heavy duty carrier that has to transport that.

Speaker 3 - 43:47
So let's start one at a time.

Speaker 4 - 43:51
We know that the 16 feet and under is not reasonable for

Speaker 3 - 43:51
light duty.

Speaker 3 - 43:51
What's your 16 feet and under is not reasonable for light duty.

Speaker 3 - 43:55
What's your recommendation for light duty?

Speaker 4 - 43:58
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 43:59
What's your maximum overall?

Speaker 4 - 44:01
Just to understand your question, with the trailer.

Speaker 3 - 44:03
With the trailer.

Speaker 3 - 44:04
We're saying overall.

Speaker 3 - 44:05
We're gonna stick with overall.

Speaker 2 - 44:06
19 overall

Speaker 1 - 44:07
now?

Speaker 1 - 44:07
Yes.

Speaker 1 - 44:08
I just wanna be I I think we all need to be comfortable talking about.

Speaker 4 - 44:11
But that's not overall.

Speaker 4 - 44:12
Right?

Speaker 3 - 44:13
This is not overall.

Speaker 3 - 44:14
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 44:14
No.

Speaker 3 - 44:14
So I'm just thinking well, maybe do we need to discuss and agree on that?

Speaker 3 - 44:20
I think for clarity, it has to be overall because if you don't, then you'll get into, oh, well, it was just a bold and, it has to be overall.

Speaker 4 - 44:30
Well, my friend, I I have to ask.

Speaker 4 - 44:32
If it's a trailer by itself, That's the only problem.

Speaker 4 - 44:35
It's still a wrong.

Speaker 4 - 44:36
It's still a wrong.

Speaker 4 - 44:37
I I just have to ask.

Speaker 4 - 44:38
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 44:38
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 44:39
So you gotta have a motion for

Speaker 1 - 44:42
that.

Speaker 1 - 44:42
Motion to a wrong.

Speaker 5 - 44:44
Before then, as we were talking, the house with, you know, modeling into JB Powers.

Speaker 5 - 44:50
And, we're talking about a fiberglass vision board in the 16 foot to 20 foot category Mhmm.

Speaker 5 - 44:56
Which seems in alignment with what commissioner Adams is saying looks like 20 feet is the maximum.

Speaker 5 - 45:03
And then they also talked about how many pounds it weighs between £729.

Speaker 5 - 45:09
And if you combine it with the heavy duty trailer, and you could easily anticipate up to 5,000 pounds.

Speaker 5 - 45:14
Before we go on this, I know that it was a question that he asked earlier for sake of consistency.

Speaker 5 - 45:20
Are we going to stay by the length or are we gonna stay by the end?

Speaker 5 - 45:23
We have to stay by the end.

Speaker 5 - 45:24
By the way, that was what

Speaker 3 - 45:26
Well, boats and trailers, we've said it's a it's it's it's not we're not bound by vehicle.

Speaker 3 - 45:32
But Okay.

Speaker 3 - 45:33
So boats and trailers Alright.

Speaker 3 - 45:34
It's going to be the length.

Speaker 3 - 45:36
Overall length, which means the trailer length.

Speaker 3 - 45:36
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 45:42
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 45:44
So I think what's important, mister Matt Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 45:46
Chair, that you have some empirical standard measure.

Speaker 2 - 45:50
Be it weight, yield length.

Speaker 2 - 45:51
That is 1 and it's well defined.
Speaker 2 - 45:53
Yes.

Speaker 2 - 45:54
So with that, I'm gonna add one more caveat to this that we had to discuss.

Speaker 2 - 45:58
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 45:58
The the the motor on the boat.

Speaker 2 - 46:00
So when we're measuring the the boat on the trailer, does that include if it's an outward motor from an outward motor to the tip?

Speaker 2 - 46:08
Because that could change things also

Speaker 3 - 46:11
to to the Does it change the overall length?

Speaker 2 - 46:14
It would change the length.

Speaker 4 - 46:15
So a 16 foot

Speaker 2 - 46:15
boat overall.

Speaker 4 - 46:18
So So

Speaker 2 - 46:18
a 16 foot boat would have 2 feet of an outward motor.

Speaker 2 - 46:22
That's 18 feet.

Speaker 2 - 46:23
And you have a long tongue on it, it'd be another 4.

Speaker 2 - 46:25
It'd be 22 feet for a 16 foot boat.

Speaker 2 - 46:27
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 46:27
And then the trailer may add another 3 feet.

Speaker 3 - 46:30
Right?

Speaker 2 - 46:30
That would be that would be with additional

Speaker 3 - 46:32
So that will move it into theoretically, at this point, if we said, 20 into medium duties.

Speaker 2 - 46:38
So that almost all boats

Speaker 5 - 46:40
will be medium duty.

Speaker 2 - 46:41
And and this is where I I have to struggle with this because we have right now, we have when I say we the police department has 5 PATs, private authorized doors.

Speaker 2 - 46:52
Of those 5 companies, 4 of them tow these boats without heavy duty vehicle equipment.

Speaker 2 - 47:00
And one that is approved, heavy duty tower charges for the heavy duty tow for the same type of loads.

Speaker 2 - 47:09
And so that's it tells me that it is being done and it is done on the equipment that's existing.

Speaker 3 - 47:14
Medium.

Speaker 3 - 47:16
But but I We're gonna I I I would I would interject that since this is directly related related to your PATs, that that's what we look at.

Speaker 3 - 47:30
I I

Speaker 1 - 47:31
Captain Adams brought this up at the last meeting.

Speaker 1 - 47:33
I discussed it with the towers, and they all agreed that they are doing what Recker tow, which is gov tow, tells them to do.

Speaker 1 - 47:40
He may be dispatched more for the heavy duty tows because he's a heavy duty tower.

Speaker 1 - 47:43
Others may be dispatched more for the light duty tows.

Speaker 1 - 47:47
And again, there's gray areas of boats that are loaded with debris that become heavy duty tows.

Speaker 1 - 47:52
And light duty tower may have been dispatched, but it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 - 47:55
So they have to call in the heavy duty tows.

Speaker 1 - 47:57
So there's nobody's doing something they shouldn't be doing.

Speaker 1 - 48:00
They're all being dispatched and doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 - 48:05
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 - 48:05
I just wanna make that clear.

Speaker 3 - 48:07
I'm good on that, and we're we're just trying to set make sure we have the fair rate.

Speaker 3 - 48:11
So, again, I'm gonna go back to Yeah.

Speaker 4 - 48:17
Just, yeah.

Speaker 4 - 48:19
I think you should agree on if it if any when we say overall because Yes.

Speaker 4 - 48:23
He asked the question.

Speaker 4 - 48:24
Yes.

Speaker 4 - 48:25
So you you define define overall as my suggestion.

Speaker 4 - 48:30
Just to define it.

Speaker 4 - 48:31
To say if it's outboard, yes.

Speaker 4 - 48:33
Let's move outboard to, but just define what overall it is.

Speaker 4 - 48:36
We know what overall

Speaker 5 - 48:37
it is.

Speaker 1 - 48:38
It's motor, vessel, and trailer.

Speaker 1 - 48:40
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 48:40
Correct?

Speaker 1 - 48:40
Is that correct?

Speaker 1 - 48:41
Yep.

Speaker 2 - 48:42
So for with with that, if we define it, very few boats are gonna be

Speaker 1 - 48:42
Overall?

Speaker 4 - 48:46
under 24 feet.

Speaker 4 - 48:47
I'll say that.

Speaker 4 - 48:48
So we

Speaker 2 - 48:48
so we go back to the original, tow rate commission where they had one rate for boats.

Speaker 2 - 48:55
Because very rarely are we gonna have a boat that's on a trailer with an engine that's gonna be under 22 to 24 feet because of the length of the tongue of the trailer and the, extension of the motor.
Speaker 2 - 49:07
Even an inboard motor is gonna protrude out in a foot and a half or 2 feet.

Speaker 4 - 49:12
if you have one of those, bolts with, like, the with the motor inside, is that typically like, with the 350 in there or something, how long are those typically?

Speaker 2 - 49:12
So so

Speaker 2 - 49:22
They're a little short.

Speaker 2 - 49:23
They were like a.

Speaker 2 - 49:24
Like a.

Speaker 4 - 49:26
There's some of them that have,

Speaker 4 - 49:26
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 49:28
car engines or, you know, like, drifting like an e engine or cylinder.

Speaker 2 - 49:33
They they don't stick out as far as an outboard motor, but they're still a foot and a half for the, the end of the engine that goes into the water Mhmm.

Speaker 2 - 49:42
And the propeller.

Speaker 2 - 49:43
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 49:44
And so very, very few bolts will be under 24 feet.

Speaker 2 - 49:47
So essentially, every bolt tone would be a heavy tone under that one of these current links.

Speaker 3 - 49:54
So the question is, how do you measure the length?

Speaker 3 - 49:57
Whether it's overall and if it's overall, what is that definition?

Speaker 3 - 50:01
And, Peggy, do you wanna defer to

Speaker 1 - 50:03
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 50:04
I'd like Troy to speak again.

Speaker 1 - 50:05
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 50:05
Because he's the expert in this.

Speaker 3 - 50:07
Before we talk about the

Speaker 4 - 50:09
So so we're talking about

Speaker 4 - 50:09
list.

Speaker 5 - 50:11
length of the overall.

Speaker 4 - 50:12
I just wanna just kinda give you some guidelines of a a carrier truck.

Speaker 4 - 50:15
And I'm only giving this guy line because a lot of cases, we go off of these boats that are in these fields, and the tires are no good.

Speaker 4 - 50:22
The hitches are no good.

Speaker 4 - 50:24
They're not some don't have tires.

Speaker 4 - 50:25
Some are not on, trailers.

Speaker 4 - 50:28
So dealing with this every day, the lift of a light duty truck is 19 feet.

Speaker 4 - 50:32
So, overall, 19 feet can go on the a light duty truck.

Speaker 4 - 50:40
A medium duty truck goes up to 22 feet.

Speaker 4 - 50:43
So that will be the length overall for a medium duty.

Speaker 4 - 50:45
Anything above that would have to go on a heavy duty that goes up to 32 feet.

Speaker 1 - 50:50
Oh, are the wall?

Speaker 1 - 50:51
Yeah.

Speaker 4 - 50:56
And and I and I and I do I do recognize that there are some folks that do get pulled, but we found more than half that we go out for from sitting in those fields and, you know, been sitting there for 10, 20 years.

Speaker 4 - 51:11
They just can't most of them have to go up top.

Speaker 1 - 51:15
On the third party?

Speaker 3 - 51:16
Yes.

Speaker 3 - 51:16
Yes.

Speaker 1 - 51:17
They can't be towed.

Speaker 3 - 51:18
Right.

Speaker 3 - 51:18
And to the advantage and I think to your point and probably a point that you have not made, yeah, captain captain captain Adams is based on this, if it's overall, most of the tows will be in heavy duty.

Speaker 3 - 51:34
That is a very high proposed toll rate.

Speaker 3 - 51:38
And it's my understanding that most of these boats are not redeemed, which becomes then a city, cost to the city.

Speaker 3 - 51:54
And I know we're not here to really look at the cost of the city.

Speaker 3 - 52:00
I guess I would go back to then the proposed tow rate because this kinda changes the the the dynamics.

Speaker 3 - 52:11
And I don't recall of him.

Speaker 3 - 52:14
Do we have any good benchmark studies for boats and trailers for tows from any other, you know, benchmark study?

Speaker 3 - 52:25
I don't think we had.

Speaker 1 - 52:26
We we looked at their light duty, medium duty, and heavy duty tow rates.

Speaker 3 - 52:30
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 52:31
For most vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 52:32
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 52:32
Mostly.

Speaker 3 - 52:41
So you had mentioned before, Catherine Adams, that you had no comment or that DPD was not going to speak on the proposed toll rate.
Speaker 3 - 52:50
This kind of puts it in a different light.

Speaker 3 - 52:53
Correct.

Speaker 2 - 52:54
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 52:54
The police department now position on the rate fee.

Speaker 2 - 52:58
K.

Speaker 3 - 52:59
So are we still then just looking at the rate guideline?

Speaker 3 - 53:03
We're still in agreement with the proposed rate.

Speaker 3 - 53:05
Are we still now then looking at the guidelines?

Speaker 3 - 53:09
And I guess going back to trying to get a agreement and consensus on overall, what that means regardless and I wanna say regardless of where it's gonna fall in the classification.

Speaker 2 - 53:22
So for discussion, I think we need to consider because of the complicated nature of boats and trailers, being on a trailer, not being on trailer, inboard motor, no motor, that both be one category.

Speaker 2 - 53:33
Because very rarely are we gonna tow one that's under 22, 24 feet.

Speaker 3 - 53:37
One category, 1 feet?

Speaker 3 - 53:39
One category, 1 feet.

Speaker 4 - 53:40
Yeah.

Speaker 4 - 53:40
That's

Speaker 3 - 53:40
what they we had

Speaker 2 - 53:41
before.

Speaker 2 - 53:42
Yes.

Speaker 1 - 53:45
And I just wanna add that, you know, knowing that that was the vessel length and then with Troy clarifying light duty, medium duty, and heavy duty, I think now that we're considering overall, I think, you know, we just need to change those categories to reflect the overall Like, based on what the light duty, medium duty and type of duty play that.

Speaker 2 - 54:07
For clarification, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 - 54:08
The commissioner Goodwin.

Speaker 2 - 54:09
Are you are you, proposing me stay with the the light, medium, heavy schedule Yes.

Speaker 2 - 54:14
Which is different?

Speaker 3 - 54:15
Then what you both.

Speaker 2 - 54:17
The proposal you're proposing different than what I'm proposing.

Speaker 2 - 54:17
Yes.

Speaker 2 - 54:19
And are you proposing different lengths for those 3 categories or definition of those lengths?

Speaker 1 - 54:25
What are you proposing?

Speaker 2 - 54:26
I'm proposing that because of the complicated nature of determining the length of the boats that very few boats will be under 22, 24 feet, that they're just the one category boat and 1 feet for boat.

Speaker 3 - 54:40
Flat rate.

Speaker 3 - 54:41
Flat rate.

Speaker 3 - 54:42
We've always thought everything else.

Speaker 1 - 54:44
A flat rate for boats?

Speaker 1 - 54:46
Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 54:51
You wanna have a discussion with your target?

Speaker 2 - 54:54
I I would No.

Speaker 3 - 54:55
It it would just be one class.

Speaker 3 - 54:56
We were in one flat rate.

Speaker 3 - 54:57
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 54:58
Not heavy, medium, or not no no classification.

Speaker 3 - 55:02
One rate.

Speaker 1 - 55:03
Right.

Speaker 1 - 55:04
One way in

Speaker 3 - 55:05
in regards to the lift.

Speaker 2 - 55:06
And and may I add this to the complicated nature of this, and I think the private tours would would agree who's gonna measure it.

Speaker 2 - 55:13
So I don't see the tow truck error going out there with the tape measure, measuring the outward motor, and measuring I mean, it's it it gets into really a difficult practice.

Speaker 2 - 55:23
And then do we measure it when it comes to the lot to make sure that it fits within the category that the tow is billing for?

Speaker 2 - 55:29
It just gets very, very complicated.

Speaker 3 - 55:32
Because they have they have the responsibility to verify your invoices, blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 - 55:38
And so, yeah, it does add a a dimension of, administration that maybe you don't necessarily have to have.

Speaker 3 - 55:48
So I would ask that if you want to have a conversation with your tours, maybe a private conversation, will we table it and If we're gonna

Speaker 1 - 55:56
talk about one flat rate for towing boats Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 56:00
We need to have a discussion on that and come back to the next meeting.

Speaker 1 - 56:03
We can't we can't decide on that today.
Speaker 1 - 56:06
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 56:06
Can I take a poll though?

Speaker 3 - 56:07
Not the rate, but to just see how the tourists feel about that.

Speaker 3 - 56:12
Sure.

Speaker 3 - 56:14
How do you guys feel about it?

Speaker 4 - 56:16
That's fine.

Speaker 4 - 56:17
Is it possible?

Speaker 1 - 56:18
We need it.

Speaker 1 - 56:18
It's doable?

Speaker 1 - 56:19
Depends.

Speaker 1 - 56:19
But we need to discuss the rent.

Speaker 1 - 56:21
I mean, because

Speaker 3 - 56:22
it's it's been an issue.

Speaker 2 - 56:22
I think we're getting there.

Speaker 2 - 56:23
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 56:24
We're getting there.

Speaker 2 - 56:25
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 56:25
It's been

Speaker 1 - 56:26
an issue.

Speaker 1 - 56:26
So I'm not I'm not gonna just make a snap decision on that.

Speaker 1 - 56:30
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 56:30
And if

Speaker 4 - 56:30
I can add just one last

Speaker 3 - 56:32
thing, sir?

Speaker 2 - 56:33
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 56:34
I agree with

Speaker 4 - 56:34
what he's what captain Adams is saying in regards to the RVs.

Speaker 4 - 56:38
They are motor vehicles.

Speaker 4 - 56:40
However, at the end of the day, they will have a disposal fee.

Speaker 4 - 56:44
Let's let's talk

Speaker 3 - 56:45
about that differently.

Speaker 3 - 56:47
Because now okay.

Speaker 3 - 56:50
So we agree and I think we can motion on that, we've already taken our leads out.

Speaker 3 - 57:01
We already have my category boats and trailers and, I'd like to hear a motion that we will have one flat rate for boats and trailers.

Speaker 5 - 57:15
Before go ahead.

Speaker 5 - 57:16
The campers, I did consider that on the trailers Compars?

Speaker 2 - 57:21
So by the definition of this Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 57:26
They're well, by this guy, they're not.

Speaker 2 - 57:30
They're because they don't have their own means to drive.

Speaker 2 - 57:32
Right.

Speaker 2 - 57:33
I don't know what the industry standard is.

Speaker 2 - 57:35
I would treat those as trailers.

Speaker 2 - 57:37
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 57:38
If we're sticking to this definition You mean

Speaker 1 - 57:40
did you say campers?

Speaker 4 - 57:41
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 57:41
Campers.

Speaker 2 - 57:42
Yeah.

Speaker 1 - 57:42
Like Trailer.

Speaker 1 - 57:43
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 57:43
Camper trailers.

Speaker 2 - 57:44
Trailers.

Speaker 2 - 57:44
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 57:44
Like I showed you in the slides left.

Speaker 1 - 57:46
There were some trailers that were trick you know, traditional, and then there were camper trailers.

Speaker 1 - 57:46
Okay.

Speaker 5 - 57:51
Yeah.

Speaker 5 - 57:51
I'm just wondering if we need to include that in, in that place as a bulldozer.

Speaker 5 - 57:55
That's not campers or just the forever.

Speaker 5 - 57:57
If it's they're not consensus

Speaker 3 - 57:58
on it.

Speaker 3 - 57:58
Well, I I would have like I had on the other one, you know, includes campers and anything else I need.

Speaker 5 - 58:06
I don't I don't have that f one for you.

Speaker 5 - 58:09
What how about 2 did the run loads on these?

Speaker 5 - 58:09
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 58:16
So not not thinking too far ahead.

Speaker 2 - 58:18
I believe, mister Andrew, I I I agree with with your what I think you're you're proposing here is that trailers kind of fit in the same category, RD trailers, and that where do we define it?

Speaker 2 - 58:29
Do we define the spare tire on the back up to the the point of the ball?

Speaker 2 - 58:33
We are we measuring the box?

Speaker 2 - 58:35
Just the box, not the tongue of the trailer.

Speaker 2 - 58:37
It gets into those same things.

Speaker 2 - 58:38
So may maybe the best course of action would be one fee for for trailers.

Speaker 2 - 58:43
For trailers.

Speaker 3 - 58:44
And at least and I'll add Durango.

Speaker 3 - 58:46
Is there any other I don't wanna go on the type of RV that ever works.

Speaker 3 - 58:53
None.

Speaker 3 - 58:56
So I think we need a motion to have one flat rate for boats and trailers, and we will define what's included in that.
Speaker 4 - 59:10
1 for boats and 1?

Speaker 3 - 59:12
No.

Speaker 3 - 59:13
1 for boats and trailers Both.

Speaker 3 - 59:15
Together.

Speaker 3 - 59:16
One category.

Speaker 3 - 59:17
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 59:18
K?

Speaker 3 - 59:18
I don't think I'm sure how long you guys can ask me to discuss it.

Speaker 5 - 59:21
We'll do a discussion.

Speaker 5 - 59:22
If you can I think you wanna come back for with the rate?

Speaker 5 - 59:25
I know.

Speaker 5 - 59:25
I'm not asking

Speaker 1 - 59:26
Right.

Speaker 1 - 59:26
for a rate.

Speaker 1 - 59:32
I'm not supporting the motion.

Speaker 1 - 59:33
I okay.

Speaker 1 - 59:34
I'm totally discuss.

Speaker 2 - 59:35
I motion that we one flat rate for both trailers.

Speaker 2 - 59:39
Okay.

Speaker 5 - 59:44
I am saying yes.

Speaker 5 - 59:45
It needs to be more discretion on this.

Speaker 5 - 59:47
Let's allow this to wash and the, commissioner Goodwin.

Speaker 5 - 59:52
And then we can bring this back up.

Speaker 5 - 59:54
I'll try to.

Speaker 5 - 59:57
That'll be my recommendation.

Speaker 5 - 59:58
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 60:00
So with that being said, motion failed.

Speaker 3 - 60:02
I didn't get didn't get a motion.

Speaker 3 - 60:07
We have at at the next meeting, need to come back to boats and trailers.

Speaker 3 - 60:14
Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 60:16
The discussion has to be or I we will be looking for discussion and recommendation as to one category, Mike, versus 3 classifications.

Speaker 3 - 60:30
Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 60:32
That's one question.

Speaker 3 - 60:34
If it changes to 1 classification, the proposed what is the proposed rate?

Speaker 3 - 60:41
Right.

Speaker 3 - 60:42
If it remains 3 classifications, we have a proposed rate, we went back to the discussion of the guidelines.

Speaker 3 - 60:51
Okay?

Speaker 3 - 60:53
Alright.

Speaker 3 - 60:55
So we will take that to the next meeting.

Speaker 3 - 60:59
And I would ask that you bring, you know, or or send it to me for me, the support for that, so we can finalize that.

Speaker 3 - 61:10
And given that that is going to impact the discussion on storage rates, then we should table that as well.

Speaker 3 - 61:23
It will also impact the discussion somewhat on disposal rates, but I would like to discuss that and, bring open that up for discussion so we can consider that so you consider that, you know, as you determine whether you wanna go to one way or one classification.

Speaker 3 - 61:45
Same thing with storage.

Speaker 3 - 61:46
Yes.

Speaker 1 - 61:46
Do we need to discuss disposal rates?

Speaker 1 - 61:48
It sounds like they have a service they use that does this service or is this something

Speaker 3 - 61:52
we Well, that's why I was going to bring it up probably.

Speaker 3 - 61:56
And and and open it up for a captain Adams.

Speaker 2 - 61:58
I I think you you recall the sheriff of the record.

Speaker 2 - 62:01
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 62:03
Alright.

Speaker 3 - 62:03
So before we get there though, I can imagine.

Speaker 3 - 62:06
Yep.

Speaker 3 - 62:07
There we are.

Speaker 3 - 62:08
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 62:09
Captain Adams?

Speaker 2 - 62:11
So this reflects our current rates of the contract that we have with our recycle company, which is Remove Recycle Remarket LLC.

Speaker 2 - 62:20
It's under contract number 600-5331.

Speaker 2 - 62:23
And it has a pay schedule of boats 12 feet and under, 13 to 18 feet, 19 to 24, 20 feet, 25 and over.

Speaker 2 - 62:33
For a 12 foot of both cost of disposals of 170 for 13 to 18 to 2 25.

Speaker 2 - 62:40
For 19 to 24, it's 275.

Speaker 2 - 62:43
And for 25 and over, it's $375.

Speaker 2 - 62:47
For recreational vehicles, RVs, or motor homes, 18 to 24 foot, the cost is 2.95.

Speaker 2 - 62:56
For RVs, 25 to 32 feet, $380.

Speaker 2 - 63:01
Recreational vehicles, 33 feet and over or 495.

Speaker 2 - 63:06
And there are 4 categories of trailers, 12 feet and under, a 170.

Speaker 2 - 63:12
13 and 18, 225.

Speaker 2 - 63:15
19 and 24, 275.

Speaker 2 - 63:19
25 and over 375.
Speaker 2 - 63:21
And then solid waste is a £1,000 for 425.

Speaker 2 - 63:26
And this would include the, the trash that would be in an abandoned RV or or trailer that has to be removed.

Speaker 2 - 63:34
Not the vessel, but for the the solid waste that we removed from other vehicles.

Speaker 3 - 63:41
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 63:42
And you submitted this for discussion, so I guess I'll open it up for discussion.

Speaker 3 - 63:48
Because I'm I'm not really sure how the place or or what discussion needs to take place.

Speaker 2 - 63:55
So if if I may, the vast majority of the abandoned boats and trailers that we impound do not get redeemed, and they are disposed of by the city of Detroit at at additional cost.

Speaker 2 - 64:10
And these are the cost associated with, having those vehicles recycled or, demolished or however you wanna say it.

Speaker 1 - 64:23
And this doesn't involve the the towers.

Speaker 1 - 64:26
Correct?

Speaker 1 - 64:27
I mean, other than they tow the

Speaker 2 - 64:29
They tow 2.

Speaker 2 - 64:30
2.

Speaker 2 - 64:30
They tow 2 our lots.

Speaker 1 - 64:32
Right.

Speaker 1 - 64:32
Your lots.

Speaker 1 - 64:32
And then you take it take it from there to Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 64:37
But do you submit

Speaker 4 - 64:41
but do you submit it the PAT submitted disposals?

Speaker 4 - 64:42
Right.

Speaker 1 - 64:42
Because we didn't have this information.

Speaker 1 - 64:44
We didn't have his information of this service.

Speaker 3 - 64:48
So this was This was This is not related to the Because

Speaker 1 - 64:48
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 64:54
in the past they would they have been involved in that, but it sounds like they're not anymore based on what he submitted today.

Speaker 1 - 65:00
It was just what happened to Adam's day.

Speaker 1 - 65:02
Okay?

Speaker 1 - 65:04
Sounds like here.

Speaker 1 - 65:05
Open that up for

Speaker 3 - 65:07
Currently currently

Speaker 4 - 65:08
again, Troy Dean Yard.

Speaker 4 - 65:09
I apologize.

Speaker 4 - 65:10
But currently Kathy Adams is right.

Speaker 4 - 65:13
Currently, everything that that needs to be disposed of like that goes

Speaker 2 - 65:18
to their yard.

Speaker 2 - 65:19
But

Speaker 4 - 65:21
it changes.

Speaker 4 - 65:22
Sometimes it come to us and sometimes it doesn't.

Speaker 4 - 65:24
But as of late, the last several months, it had been going to the city lots.

Speaker 4 - 65:28
But there was a time that we not less than a year ago, probably less than 6 months ago that we were taking our own yard.

Speaker 4 - 65:34
And we asked why, and they were like, because you're on a contract.

Speaker 4 - 65:37
So we did incur disposal fees.

Speaker 1 - 65:41
Did you get reimbursed?

Speaker 3 - 65:43
No.

Speaker 3 - 65:45
So that's that's why we can't

Speaker 4 - 65:46
I don't think there was there's a I don't think there's anything for us that we can build because of the current rate structure.

Speaker 4 - 65:52
We can't build the city, I don't think, for disposal currently in our own.

Speaker 2 - 65:56
Correct.

Speaker 2 - 65:56
And and I since I've been at the the police towing unit or over the police towing unit, I'm at management services section.

Speaker 2 - 66:03
I have several units on it, but we have done this practice for this year of where the PTIU lots taken all the abandoned vehicles.

Speaker 2 - 66:14
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 66:14
And so they're the, PATs are not burdened with storage or with removal or clean up of these.

Speaker 3 - 66:22
But these proposed rates are being proposed by them for the one offs in case they do.

Speaker 3 - 66:27
It's my understanding.

Speaker 3 - 66:28
Correct?

Speaker 4 - 66:29
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 - 66:29
What was the question?

Speaker 3 - 66:30
I said, the way I understand it is, you're proposing these rates for storage and disposal for those cases, one off, whatever whatever caused it to happen, so that you have an avenue of recovery.

Speaker 3 - 66:45
Of which they happen.

Speaker 4 - 66:45
Correct.
Speaker 3 - 66:46
So in the quest and and I think you said before, captain Adams, that you we agreed that I don't know.

Speaker 3 - 66:56
You did agree on storage rates and disposal rates.

Speaker 3 - 66:59
So I'll ask you again, do you have any comment on their proposed rates?

Speaker 3 - 67:04
This is for them.

Speaker 3 - 67:06
In those cases, for whatever reason, you request them or they do store and dispose of a boat and trailer.

Speaker 2 - 67:18
The proposed rates are considerably more than what we actually pay by the current standard and current contract.

Speaker 2 - 67:26
K.

Speaker 1 - 67:29
Well, it's it's to us that he's using a service.

Speaker 1 - 67:32
Obviously, they didn't know and I didn't know that there's a service being employed that obviously is high volume that does this that's all they do.

Speaker 1 - 67:39
Right.

Speaker 4 - 67:39
So it

Speaker 1 - 67:39
makes a big difference.

Speaker 1 - 67:40
But but but yeah.

Speaker 3 - 67:41
The question is, what rate are you proposing for those cases where, you know, things may change, where you are requested by DPD to dispose of.

Speaker 3 - 67:54
And and that's what we're here to discuss.

Speaker 3 - 67:57
Now that you have these rates in front of you, do you wanna go back and look at your proposed rates?

Speaker 1 - 68:04
Or Well, I guess the question is, are you being paid for these?

Speaker 1 - 68:09
Because this is where you have a disposal fee or not.

Speaker 1 - 68:12
Right?

Speaker 4 - 68:12
Under the current Shortly.

Speaker 4 - 68:13
Rate structures in place now, we are not being reimbursed in no way shape or form.

Speaker 4 - 68:18
But that's why we're at the table.

Speaker 1 - 68:20
So is this is this work that is I mean, will they be honored a disposal fee if we go through and and and research this further to see what the fees should be?

Speaker 1 - 68:28
If we do indeed wanna change them, I don't know.

Speaker 1 - 68:30
I'm just saying if they're These rates are are are pretty accurate based on us being individual.

Speaker 1 - 68:39
Independent companies.

Speaker 1 - 68:40
Right.

Speaker 1 - 68:41
They're not high volume recycling companies.

Speaker 1 - 68:43
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 68:43
I'm staying around forever.

Speaker 3 - 68:45
So

Speaker 3 - 68:45
So don't ask.

Speaker 4 - 68:49
the the the the

Speaker 3 - 68:50
the operational side of it is, it behooves, the DPD to make sure that you don't dispose of anything that they make sure that you bring it to their lots and they dispose it to take advantage of the, city savings for the contract.

Speaker 1 - 69:06
But that doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 - 69:08
And what's happening is they're not getting paid for what they're doing.

Speaker 3 - 69:11
And and that's why it's here.

Speaker 3 - 69:13
I'm not advocating that it it comes off the table.

Speaker 3 - 69:16
I understand.

Speaker 3 - 69:17
I'm just

Speaker 1 - 69:17
I I understand the distinction of why these rates are higher than a

Speaker 3 - 69:29
opportunity now that you know what the rates are, if you wanted to think about maybe making your rates a little more competitive.

Speaker 3 - 69:36
I don't know now that you know like you said you didn't have this information right.

Speaker 3 - 69:41
You know what the city is.

Speaker 3 - 69:44
So it's it's it's it's really up to you.

Speaker 3 - 69:47
I think captain Evans has said in the past, he he doesn't have an opinion, one with the other.

Speaker 3 - 69:52
He's presented you with what they do now.

Speaker 3 - 69:55
And, yes, they are savings.

Speaker 3 - 69:58
Savings of scale, economy scale, or or, you know, contracts and how the city, contracts, what was the bid, and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 - 70:07
So If the interest you do have to, again, decide or think about what that proposed rate is going to be if if we go to a single category and a single class in a single rate.

Speaker 3 - 70:24
K?

Speaker 3 - 70:28
And I think the same thing with the sorority fees.
Speaker 3 - 70:31
For those cases that and that would, ensure that if they happen, when they happen, that you have some avenue to get reimbursed for those causes, which is I think is fair.

Speaker 3 - 70:44
And I don't think captain Adam is saying anything different than that.

Speaker 3 - 70:49
K?

Speaker 3 - 70:50
So that will also be tabled, but I did want him to present it.

Speaker 3 - 70:55
You would have you have the information and you guys can discuss it.

Speaker 3 - 71:01
And so boats and trailers, open category.

Speaker 3 - 71:04
We'll finalize that at our next meeting.

Speaker 3 - 71:07
We have 2.

Speaker 3 - 71:10
So the next, page includes everything else, and I'll open it up for discussion.

Speaker 3 - 71:16
So this would be our 3rd category, miscellaneous that I misspelled.

Speaker 3 - 71:22
ATVs, motorcycles, jet skis.

Speaker 3 - 71:26
The commission agreed that it is a light duty tow.

Speaker 3 - 71:29
Current weight is a $100.

Speaker 3 - 71:31
Flat proposed rate is 1.25.

Speaker 3 - 71:37
Out of town tow retrievals.

Speaker 3 - 71:40
Currently, okay, for let's see a dollar.

Speaker 3 - 71:44
$4 per mile.

Speaker 3 - 71:46
6.95 per mile, heavy duty.

Speaker 3 - 71:50
Proposed rate, $6.8.89 per mile.

Speaker 3 - 71:53
We've agreed that those are okay.

Speaker 3 - 71:56
And this is more for informational purposes.

Speaker 3 - 72:01
Again, me trying to think about how to present these categories so that we focus on the the main thing.

Speaker 3 - 72:09
And we want a major minor.

Speaker 3 - 72:12
We want a major in a major and not minor in a major.

Speaker 3 - 72:17
Something like that.

Speaker 3 - 72:18
Administrative fee, current rate, $75.

Speaker 3 - 72:22
Proposed Probability rate,

Speaker 4 - 72:24
$75.

Speaker 4 - 72:26
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 72:28
And I'll talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 3 - 72:31
Any other comments, questions on we were now on item 2 in our on on our agenda.

Speaker 3 - 72:39
So now I'd just like to move on quickly to bonding and insurance and inspection and permits so I re we classified everything.

Speaker 3 - 72:47
This is just a copy of the letter I sent to our corporation council, Conrad Mallett, asking them again to verify one way or the other if they, had any information regarding, relating to any changes, if any, to the current insurance and body standards for police authorized tours.

Speaker 3 - 73:12
I have not received a response nor do I expect to receive a response.

Speaker 3 - 73:16
So again, I'm recommending that we assume there is no change and, to close out this item.

Speaker 3 - 73:27
And so this is the, the slide that I hope to present.

Speaker 3 - 73:27
K?

Speaker 3 - 73:31
Just showing what the current and proposed rates are for bonding and insurance.

Speaker 3 - 73:38
And, commissioner a has already given us the information for licenses and permits and that the current there's no change to the current cost.

Speaker 3 - 73:49
K?

Speaker 3 - 73:50
And with that, that brings me to the end of this presentation, but I'll go back up to the agenda.

Speaker 3 - 74:01
And we are here.

Speaker 3 - 74:09
And we are here.

Speaker 3 - 74:10
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 74:10
So we've gone through

Speaker 5 - 74:13
Number 8.

Speaker 3 - 74:16
Page 2.

Speaker 3 - 74:17
Yep.

Speaker 3 - 74:17
We are number 8.

Speaker 3 - 74:19
New business.

Speaker 3 - 74:21
We had talked last week about, all of us going through in Iowa and comparing the 2021 and 1984, 1984, toy grade ordinances.

Speaker 3 - 74:35
The the previous commission was under the 1984 toy grade ordinance.

Speaker 3 - 74:41
We are under the current 2021 toy toy grade ordinance.

Speaker 3 - 74:45
And if you go to your tab 4, history, and do to bring in the charter.

Speaker 3 - 75:15
And, of course, this is the city charter to, just highlight the differences and changes as it relates to this commission.

Speaker 3 - 75:24
And so if you go down, I think the first real change was on page 3.
Speaker 3 - 75:30
And it does specifically relate to, this commission.

Speaker 3 - 75:37
It it adds that if we fail to forward a recommendation within the time provided, which is by October 1st, then city council can adopt a resolution to set the fee services and storage fees without such recommendations.

Speaker 3 - 75:54
So we don't want that to happen.

Speaker 3 - 75:57
So that's why we're here in meeting and, working so well together to come up with the proposed rate.

Speaker 3 - 76:04
It also added the joint contracts in this related after 2021, include the income based rate structure.

Speaker 3 - 76:14
And I did note that that was included in the contracts that So now, 20 Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 76:21
22 through 2027.

Speaker 3 - 76:26
So that's one of the big changes.

Speaker 3 - 76:27
And I'll just point out this.

Speaker 3 - 76:30
The other big change was on page 5.

Speaker 3 - 76:33
And that essentially removed the the board of police commissioners from having anything to do with the procurement of PATs.

Speaker 3 - 76:42
They put it squarely into the, office of the chief financial officer and the office of contract procurement.

Speaker 3 - 76:53
If you go on page 6, this introduces the administrative fee, which what came out of the 2012 toll rate commission.

Speaker 3 - 77:05
And, it, adds again, the city council can adopt the cost of towing and storing through resolution.

Speaker 3 - 77:22
And then it just talks about how that resolution will be made public as we all know or based on the last commission.

Speaker 3 - 77:35
The commission did provide the proposed rates to the city council before that October 1st deadline, but the resolution was not affected until April of the following year.

Speaker 3 - 77:49
I suspect that that may still be the case because it'll take effect the next budget year, but they probably will adopt it, during the on during this next budget cycle.

Speaker 5 - 78:01
Excuse me.

Speaker 5 - 78:02
By the chance, going

Speaker 2 - 78:04
that chance, when we sell What page?

Speaker 5 - 78:07
I mean, some kids we are on 6.

Speaker 5 - 78:09
We're gonna go On the same page, we are on 6.

Speaker 5 - 78:11
We're gonna deal

Speaker 3 - 78:11
with the special meeting.

Speaker 3 - 78:12
So if

Speaker 5 - 78:12
the city sells the vehicle or it could ruin an auction and the cost I mean, the proceeds from the vehicle exceeds, or the accumulated charge, the storage, and everything.

Speaker 5 - 78:23
Do we reimburse the owner's vehicle for a difference?

Speaker 5 - 78:26
It

Speaker 2 - 78:28
yes.

Speaker 2 - 78:28
So a vehicle that's auctioned, the the hierarchy of fees is storage, towing, and then administrative fees.

Speaker 2 - 78:37
And then if there's any overage left over, there's a $40 fee that of that $40 fee, done 25 goes to state of Michigan for a van and vehicle and 15 goes to the municipality.

Speaker 2 - 78:50
And then the rest of that overage, the remainder goes to the treasury, and the treasury just, gives it to the title owner.

Speaker 4 - 79:00
It's a

Speaker 2 - 79:00
is it say it's Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 79:02
It's civil but complicated.

Speaker 2 - 79:04
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 79:05
It seems like exceptions.

Speaker 2 - 79:06
But vehicles that are sold for less than the storage and towing, there are no overages and no money goes to the treasury.

Speaker 5 - 79:14
And we don't go after the owner, you know, that's any other phone.

Speaker 5 - 79:18
No.

Speaker 5 - 79:18
We do.

Speaker 4 - 79:19
We do not.

Speaker 4 - 79:19
Some cities do, but we do not.

Speaker 3 - 79:34
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 79:34
So I'm gonna change it on page 7.

Speaker 3 - 79:38
Page 8, it talks about let's see.

Speaker 3 - 79:46
It talks about removal.

Speaker 3 - 79:47
Not necessarily impacts what we're doing.

Speaker 3 - 79:52
It's strictly rates.

Speaker 3 - 79:54
Rates.

Speaker 3 - 79:54
Rates.

Speaker 3 - 79:59
And so although we didn't do it then, we've, done it now.

Speaker 3 - 80:05
That's just a payment added on page 12.
Speaker 3 - 80:09
There's an impact of rates.

Speaker 3 - 80:19
What is this?

Speaker 3 - 80:19
Mhmm.

Speaker 3 - 80:27
So with that, we we reviewed it.

Speaker 3 - 80:30
I will, again, just bring out some of those highlights in the presentation.

Speaker 3 - 80:35
The next thing on the agenda is to discuss the need for and, or propose stage for a special call meeting.

Speaker 3 - 80:44
Right now, our next scheduled meeting is in 3 weeks.

Speaker 3 - 80:48
Right?

Speaker 3 - 80:49
Because we decided not to meet on the, our our next meeting, 2 week meeting would have been on September 5th, but we decided to meet on 12th.

Speaker 3 - 81:04
That's

Speaker 3 - 81:05
is cutting it close.

Speaker 4 - 81:05
to me

Speaker 3 - 81:07
We definitely need to have a meeting in between.

Speaker 3 - 81:11
And 12th would be reserved to having our eyes upon what I hope to have the, presentation as we're going to send out if we're going to speak before the public health and safety committee.

Speaker 3 - 81:28
You know, as I talk, if we finalize that really on 12th and get it out to them by the end of business on 12th, they would have a few days to look at it.

Speaker 3 - 81:39
Right.

Speaker 3 - 81:41
So with that being said but I would hope to have, you know, send out the presentation for you to review between then and then.

Speaker 3 - 81:52
I would prefer to have a meeting next week, a special call meeting that gives me time to finalize the numbers.

Speaker 3 - 82:01
I may have some draft, parts of the presentation ready either next week or the 1st week in September.

Speaker 1 - 82:13
So I support August 29th.

Speaker 4 - 82:16
I do too.

Speaker 4 - 82:19
Yeah.

Speaker 2 - 82:20
Because then which comes to shove, then we need an additional meeting.

Speaker 2 - 82:24
We have the ability to do that as opposed to waiting till 5th.

Speaker 2 - 82:30
Okay.

Speaker 2 - 82:31
I like

Speaker 1 - 82:33
that too.

Speaker 1 - 82:34
Madam chairperson, for clarification, this September 16th has not been confirmed yet by Ray Duncan.

Speaker 1 - 82:39
Right?

Speaker 3 - 82:40
Or is that confirmed?

Speaker 3 - 82:41
No.

Speaker 3 - 82:41
It's not.

Speaker 3 - 82:42
Okay.

Speaker 1 - 82:42
I just wanted

Speaker 3 - 82:43
I'm I'm not pushed for that.

Speaker 3 - 82:45
Right.

Speaker 2 - 82:45
I mean because I actually,

Speaker 3 - 82:46
I gave her 16th and 23rd, and she said the 23rd was problematic for them because they, that's they get your dangerous buildings and it's already gone.

Speaker 3 - 82:56
So Right.

Speaker 3 - 82:57
What she needed to clarify was that I need to send it to city council to have it referred, but I talked with, Brian White, who's chief of staff for council president.

Speaker 3 - 83:12
And I can put it in to the council of the whole agenda to have it referred to them for 16th.

Speaker 3 - 83:21
So I would actually do that.

Speaker 3 - 83:22
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 83:24
I would do that on the they're back from recess that 1st week.

Speaker 3 - 83:29
So I would submit a request to be on their agenda either for September 3rd or September 10th.

Speaker 3 - 83:40
So that it gets to the darn time.

Speaker 3 - 83:42
Right?

Speaker 3 - 83:43
So I I don't think it's gonna be an issue.

Speaker 3 - 83:46
Okay.

Speaker 3 - 83:47
Because I try to confirm.

Speaker 1 - 83:48
I'm trying to think.

Speaker 2 - 83:50
Madam chair, for our meeting on 29th Yes.

Speaker 2 - 83:52
Will the meeting times be the same from 1 PM to 3?

Speaker 3 - 83:55
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 83:56
We can.

Speaker 3 - 83:56
We can move it up.

Speaker 2 - 83:58
I would prefer to keep it on the same kind of schedule.

Speaker 2 - 84:01
So we have

Speaker 3 - 84:03
that with that.

Speaker 3 - 84:04
It should be fine.

Speaker 4 - 84:07
That's what next time

Speaker 4 - 84:07
Yeah.

Speaker 3 - 84:11
I don't know if that's how it was scheduled.

Speaker 3 - 84:13
I don't know if that's the one you're saying.

Speaker 3 - 84:16
Change.

Speaker 3 - 84:18
Alright.
Speaker 3 - 84:19
So I'd like to propose and, that we meet on October 29th.

Speaker 3 - 84:26
Same time, I will try to confirm our meet room again.

Speaker 3 - 84:31
If not, then it will be in our office.

Speaker 3 - 84:33
It'll be a special call meeting, close to public.

Speaker 3 - 84:37
Colin Green?

Speaker 2 - 84:38
Very good.

Speaker 5 - 84:39
I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 - 84:39
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 - 84:40
We're Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 - 84:41
We're doing good.

Speaker 3 - 84:42
253.

Speaker 3 - 84:47
Wow.

Speaker 3 - 84:47
Any other comments?

Speaker 3 - 84:48
We have 7 minutes from the comments from our commissioners.

Speaker 3 - 84:51
Commissioner's report.

Speaker 3 - 84:56
You make a great team.

Speaker 3 - 84:57
Don't you think?

Speaker 3 - 85:00
Well, with that being said, I'd like to adjourn this meeting at 2:54 PM.

Speaker 4 - 85:06
That's a Do you have a jail card?

Speaker 4 - 85:08
Thank you.